{"id":36246,"date":"2021-10-08T14:03:01","date_gmt":"2021-10-08T14:03:01","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/?p=36246"},"modified":"2021-10-08T14:03:01","modified_gmt":"2021-10-08T14:03:01","slug":"how-to-respect-a-saint-or-an-angel-in-north-america","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/2021\/10\/how-to-respect-a-saint-or-an-angel-in-north-america","title":{"rendered":"How to Respect a Saint or an Angel in North America?"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"aligncenter size-medium wp-image-36247\" src=\"https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/10\/\u0421\u043a\u0430\u0437\u043a\u0438-2-775x517.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"775\" height=\"517\" srcset=\"https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/10\/\u0421\u043a\u0430\u0437\u043a\u0438-2-775x517.jpg 775w, https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/10\/\u0421\u043a\u0430\u0437\u043a\u0438-2-768x513.jpg 768w, https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/10\/\u0421\u043a\u0430\u0437\u043a\u0438-2.jpg 800w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 775px) 100vw, 775px\" \/><\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400; text-align: justify;\">A Protestant friend of mine who is sympathetic to Orthodoxy and likes icons recently felt he had to draw the line.\u00a0\u00a0On a weekday service in church he saw an Orthodox friend bowing down in prostration before an icon of a saint, and he thought this was a bit over the top.\u00a0\u00a0Kissing icons of Christ, sure; and of His saints\u2014um, okay.\u00a0\u00a0And prostrating before an icon of Christ\u2014he could handle that.\u00a0\u00a0After all, if Christ were present, he would certainly throw himself at His feet and prostrate himself before Him, and there was this talk about the honour given to the image passing to its prototype.\u00a0\u00a0So, okay.\u00a0\u00a0Prostrations before Christ\u2019s icon were acceptable.\u00a0\u00a0But prostrating before the icon of a saint (or presumably prostrating before that saint himself should they ever meet)\u2014this was too much.\u00a0\u00a0One has to draw the line somewhere, and this is where he felt it had to be drawn.\u00a0\u00a0After all, Cornelius had prostrated himself before Peter once (read about it in Acts 10:25-26) and Peter told him to cut it out.\u00a0\u00a0And in Revelation 22:8-9 St. John prostrated himself before the angel of Christ who was showing him the visions, and the angel forbade him to do so.\u00a0\u00a0Even sola scriptura apart, it looks as if prostrations to anyone other than God is problematic.<\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400; text-align: justify;\">The question arises then:\u00a0\u00a0what does our culture tell us <em>is<\/em>\u00a0the correct way to show respect for a glorified saint or an angel?\u00a0\u00a0Modern North American culture, which seems to have inherited much of the British stiff upper lip approach to life, is not very demonstrative, and in this we differ from other cultures.\u00a0\u00a0In the far east, for example, bowing is a part of customary greeting, with the depth of the bow being indicated by the dignity of the person being greeted.\u00a0\u00a0Thus if a janitor and the CEO of the company where he works in Japan greet each other, the janitor would make a profound bow and the CEO a slight forward tilt of the head.\u00a0\u00a0Both would bow, but one would bow more deeply.\u00a0\u00a0In the practice of eastern martial arts, the two combatants bow to each other before beginning their contest, and in martial arts schools, students bow down to their teachers.\u00a0\u00a0No worship or adoration is implied in any of this.\u00a0\u00a0This is simply how respect works in the Far East.<\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400; text-align: justify;\">\u00a0This is not much different than how things used to work in the ancient west also.\u00a0\u00a0In pagan Rome, the form of greetings was dictated by the relative status of the people greeting each other, for clients would greet their patrons differently and with greater respect than two co-equal patrons would greet one another.\u00a0\u00a0Co-equal patrons would kiss each other.\u00a0\u00a0Clients would bow and offer more profound respect.\u00a0\u00a0Slaves would prostrate.\u00a0\u00a0This is all very different now in the west, where kissing, embracing, and other fulsome forms of greeting are generally not done.\u00a0\u00a0When one meets the President of the United States, one is expected to simply exchange a firm handshake.\u00a0\u00a0When one greets the Queen of England, one is expected to bow a bit, or curtsey.\u00a0\u00a0Hugging is \u201cright out\u201d.\u00a0\u00a0And prostration before dignitaries would be considered mortifyingly embarrassing for all concerned, and might cause someone to phone 911.\u00a0\u00a0Here in the modern west, our backs remain firmly erect.\u00a0\u00a0If one were to ever meet St. Paul now, our culture instructs us to simply shake his apostolic hand, and say, \u201cHow do you do, St. Paul?\u00a0\u00a0Nice to meet you.\u00a0\u00a0I\u2019ve read all your letters.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400; text-align: justify;\">Putting it like this, it does seem as if we moderns are the odd ones.\u00a0\u00a0St. Paul was concerned that the semi-pagan Cornelius might mistake him for some kind of a demi-god, for that is how pagans thought.\u00a0\u00a0For pagans, the lines between the divine, the semi-divine, the heroic, and the merely human were all pretty blurry, and St. Paul as a good Jew thought these lines could stand a little firming up.\u00a0\u00a0The Gospel could not be preached apart from a context of good Jewish monotheism, and he wanted to get that clear right at the beginning.\u00a0\u00a0But now we are in no danger of deifying St. Paul or forgetting that he is no more divine than we are.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0Our heart instructs us to do something more than simply shake his hand, treating him as if he were no more glorious than some politician.\u00a0\u00a0Speaking personally, my own heart would compel me to fall at his feet\u2014not in worship obviously, but in gratitude for all he has done, both for the Church and for me personally.\u00a0<\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400; text-align: justify;\">This compulsion of gratitude and respect accords with the way profound respect was shown in Biblical times.\u00a0\u00a0When Jacob wanted to show profound respect for his brother Esau, he didn\u2019t simply greet him with the customary kiss.\u00a0\u00a0He prostrated himself at his feet\u2014seven times, in fact (Genesis 33:3).\u00a0\u00a0His wife and children prostrated themselves too (v. 6-7).\u00a0\u00a0When a woman of Tekoa wanted help from King David, she prostrated herself before him (2 Samuel 14:4); when Nathan wanted merciful help from David, he also prostrated himself before him (1 Kings 1:23).\u00a0\u00a0Co-equal friends might kiss one another in greeting, but one greeted a king with a prostration.\u00a0\u00a0That was how respect worked then in the Middle East.<\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400; text-align: justify;\">In Orthodox liturgical practice, it still works that way:\u00a0\u00a0candidates for ordination prostrate before the ordaining bishop at the time of ordination, and ordinary Christians prostrate before one another at Forgiveness Vespers.\u00a0\u00a0When we encounter the glorified saints, whether personally in a vision or (more likely) in their icons, we prostrate ourselves before them too.\u00a0\u00a0Prostration, like kissing, is the ancient tradition of humanity, and should need little justification.\u00a0\u00a0It is the firm backs and handshakes of our strait-laced and uptight culture that need justifying.\u00a0\u00a0It\u2019s okay to be a little odd and out of step when one greets the President.\u00a0\u00a0But in the Kingdom and in church, normalcy should prevail.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\"><em>Source: <a href=\"http:\/\/frlawrencefarley.blogspot.com\/2014\/06\/stiff-backs-and-firm-handshakes.html\">http:\/\/frlawrencefarley.blogspot.com\/2014\/06\/stiff-backs-and-firm-handshakes.html<\/a><\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>A Protestant friend of mine who is sympathetic to Orthodoxy and likes icons recently felt he had to draw the line.\u00a0\u00a0On a weekday service&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":36247,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[104],"tags":[80],"class_list":["post-36246","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-qa-with-an-orthodox-priest","tag-saints"],"aioseo_notices":[],"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/10\/\u0421\u043a\u0430\u0437\u043a\u0438-2.jpg","views":{"total":197,"cached_at":"","cached_date":1768412347},"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/paPyw9-9qC","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/36246","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=36246"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/36246\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":36248,"href":"https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/36246\/revisions\/36248"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/36247"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=36246"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=36246"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/catalog.obitel-minsk.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=36246"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}